#69 Special Guest: 32 Yrs Of Law Enforcement – Nick Grove On RMSDF & Citizen Defender

listen: https://redcircle.com/shows/a982e1e3-972c-4e9f-b369-6b29534df441/episodes/cb20ff1d-2e8c-4a33-8f5e-63d8d1457a16

Show Transcript

This is the John Hallett podcast with John Hallett. Because the way we’re living, we need to change it. Make it change today. And all learn from failure. Maybe they just wanted it a little bit more than you. That’s probably the fact. And now your host, John Hallett.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. Today I am joined with Nick Grove, longtime member here, um, nearing retirement in his career in law enforcement. So that’s a super awesome accomplishment to make it that far. And such a profession I have a lot of respect for, because you guys have just such a hard job.

So how you doing today, Nick?

Good. I’m good. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Yeah, we’ve been trying to do it for a while. And of course, you got your, we got little mini police dogs. You guys have not met good police dogs, you guys, I know the office is up, uh, in chaos, and you guys are like, people are here. You guys need to lie down.

We got our frenchies, Axel and Leo. Uh, they’re gonna be featured on a short pretty soon together fighting style.

Nice.

And it’s actually funny to watch the dogs because Axel try to control the head. He’ll post off. He goes for a single leg. Axel got good. Axel got a good single leg. Okay, Axel. So, well, how did you get started here at RMSDF?

Well, so I actually got started this interesting story, because, uh, my kid was being bullied in elementary school, and he was, uh, ending up in the nurse’s office a lot because of being injured from the other students that were bullying him. And he wanted to get into martial arts.

So I looked around what, uh, was available in town, and from there I founded Krav gym. And

because, um, of law enforcement, that’s something we use as part of our law enforcement training, this krav, we moved from coga, which is an older style, probably dating myself a little bit. Um, and then we moved into a Krav style defense system to help us retain our weapons. And, uh, if we get taken like a gunpoint or something like that, they teach us techniques that are based on Krav.

So I knew some knowledge about it from trainings throughout the time we, um, were working through the department. And so I brought him in and, uh, he went from being basically pushed around and dumped all the time in school and getting her to not. So the, the skills that he learned here were impactful.

Um, so he went, stopped going to the nurse’s office after that, I didn’t spend any more time on the phone with the nurse because they weren’t, they weren’t beating him up in the lunch room anymore. So he found that self confidence there that that was available to him already.

But he was able to take that because he’s already a big kid. Um, he was a big kid back then, too. I think that might be why he got picked on a lot.

Yeah.

So he, as time went, um, when he first started, I was actually injured. Um, so I didn’t join Krav at that point. Um, but at a certain point, you know, he kind of grew up and lost a little bit more interest in Kravitz. And, uh, I looked at it as, um, when I joined, I had two purposes when I joined, when I knew I was getting a little bit older in the law enforcement profession, and the times were changing, and it’s getting a little bit more violent towards police officers, a little bit more dangerous.

And then also, I always have struggled with my weight on and off throughout the time when I’ve been on the department. So there was twofold part for me when I started looking at Krav was when I wanted to protect myself. I wanted to survive. I want to live longer.

Uh, somebody attacks me, I want to have more tools to help protect myself. And, um, I’d been through some other martial arts also already, so I had a pretty good feel of my time at other places. And I knew about Cobb because Alex spent, what, seven, eight years here.

Um, so that’s why I came. And then my second biggest goal was I just struggled past those last ten or 15 pounds, which I still struggle with today. But I’m down, uh, probably about 17 pounds since I started here. Um, and I’ve been able to keep them off. And it’s kind of my goal every year.

I have a year measurement. Actually. Every year I kind of like, okay, did I make it down to that ten pound mark? Because at a certain point, you know, these are the little tiny weight differences. Like five points. Five pounds, for me is really hard to get that and then maintain it.

I’ll bounce down and then I bounce right back up, which gets to be a little bit frustrating sometimes, but you just have to fight through that. Yeah.

Feel those smaller increments.

It really does for a longer time.

Uh, versus a bigger jump.

So any of my fight skills here have grown immensely from when I started six or seven years ago. Um, my confidence is a lot better. I’m, uh, dealing with people. I look for a lot better angles, um, a lot better. Understanding my fight technique is a lot better. It’s not great.

I still get hit a lot which is what it is. So, and then, you know, through the program about what, a year and a couple months ago, we started the integrated defensive strategies citizen defender program. And I think that that’s helped grow m my pistol skills, like, immensely. Just the practicing with the cert pistol and all the training that we’ve done through that process.

So I think, I think as a whole person, I’ve grown a lot more as time has gone on just by the simple fact that I come all the time. I don’t like getting injured. I still try to show up injured, which is bad for me a lot of times nowadays, but I just don’t, even if I’m out for three or four weeks, I just sit back and do it.

Fight through that the first couple of weeks of, because there’s like, anytime I get injured, I take a few weeks off. The first couple days back, I feel so terrible because I just feel like I don’t have the strength or the energy and I just go a little bit slower.

And I’ve had to learn to manage that. So I don’t feel so bad after the first two workouts that I want to take two more weeks off.

Yeah.

Um, and so that’s been, you know, struggles with some injuries and struggle with.

Weight and, yeah, I want to tell when you backtracking to when you signed Alex, if you were injured and, uh, on death duty. Correct.

I had a back injury from a car accident.

Okay. So that’s when I had met you. And you look like so many of the parents. You were overweight, a little chunky because you’ve made huge progress. You look totally different. Um, you know, you’re struggling, like we all like, oh, the last five pounds or that stuff, but you’ve come so far.

Um, I remember when you started that you just, your fighting skills were really limited because you’re only training so much. Right in long for, you know, you kind of get out of the academy and you get, you’re in service. What is that, once or twice a year? And whatever you’re doing.

And we know how perishable those skills are. If you’re not practicing them on a weekly basis, things just go out the window. And they really do. I think a lot of people take that for granted in law enforcement. They kind of get there. I see a lot of, uh, people that want to go into law enforcement and they train with us, and then they just completely fall off after the fact.

I think you training is upped your skill level so much. Uh, how you feel on duty now compared to before. What’s the difference?

So, hopefully, I mean, as an officer, I’ve always had that, like, survival mentality. So I’ve always, um. Anytime that I’ve been involved in incidents, I always have had a winning mentality. I think that it always helps in the fight that I plan on winning, so. But the difference, I think, between when I started before starting here, I don’t think I had the skills to take it to the level I do now.

Like, I could get somebody on the ground and wrestle with them and get cuffs on them right before, or pin them and do stuff like that. But since I got here, I’ve been able to put more of that into place where now it’s not, it’s not so much of a struggle.

If somebody moves to a certain position, I can move to a certain position, and it gives me a better advantage. In actuality, it reduces injuries for both me and the person I’m having a fight with because it’s. I can end a lot quicker than having to sit there and struggle with somebody or roll around with somebody, you know, chancing that I might get injured or.

Yeah. The longer it goes on.

Right.

The bigger risk that we, we can get caught up in the, in a bad position, things can go wrong quickly or somebody else jumps in. All those other factors there that happen out in the street.

So I think that’s the biggest change is that my confidence from before was, like, I was always had a winning mentality before. My plan is always to win. But since I got started here, not only do I plan to win, but I have more tools and I have a more, uh, focused ability to do the job and be comfortable with.

If I have to wrestle with somebody or if I have to fight with somebody, have the ability to follow through with what’s going on instead of. You’re right, my three or four different moves before I came here probably were, like, certain takedowns and stuff like that. My go to is, like, worked every time.

Right. And now I have other things that I can do and other control positions I can use and other management positions I can use. So if I did have to fight with somebody for a long time, that I have the abilities to control that.

Yeah. Especially when somebody fights back, you have more skill set and they’re fresh. That’s what I always love about just training, that you hear people like, the last time I got in a fight was 20 years ago, going 20 years ago. So what? Maybe you got lucky then. So many guys don’t have a skill set, um, to rely on.

They just. I got a street fight. I can handle myself. When they’re so dynamic and there’s so many things that people could be doing to you and have a. You know, they wrestled through junior high. They wrestled through high school. Things that people are doing to you out there are just.

It’s not just a fist fight. There’s so many things having that, uh, skill set to fall back on. When things, you know, go to moves don’t. Don’t work, or they resist that they’re a little bit bigger, and they. They’re fighting back in kind of go to moves, you have something else to go into, I think is so important with training.

It always just blows my mind of, uh. Well, I did. I got my badge, or, you know, even people, I got my black belt. I’m good. And it’s perishable. The week off you took, the month off you took, or you’re slacking off, those are perishable skills. It just, if you really want to be safe, it’s something you need to do.

When I kind of look back, um, in your career, uh, or in your, uh, profession, I had a guy that, ah, was a couple years. He’s probably four years ahead of me in high school. And when I brought Krav Maga to Nantucket, I was talking to him on the beach, and, look, I know I was doing taekwondo and hopkido stuff, and maybe that wasn’t up your alley, but what we’re doing with Krab magash, so much more practical, and it’s not specializing.

It’s, you know, Bruce Lee way of, no way. Just whatever works. But he told me, um, it’s like, well, why don’t you try it? I don’t know. I’m busy. And all the excuses we make, um, that we hear no matter what profession somebody’s in. And I said to him, I’m like, look, you’re surf casting.

You’re in your shorts. You obviously have no gun, and you’re in this little town. The guy that hates you or you arrested for just drunk driving. And now he’s pissed off that he can’t get to work, and he sees you on the beach. What are you gonna do? And, um, I think he said to me, um, yeah, somebody comes at me with a knife or something.

I don’t know what I do right now. I don’t have a skill set. And he had just had a baby. Don’t you want to go home to that kid? Yeah, why don’t you find the time? Why don’t you people just make these excuses and then, um. Well, I have a gun at work.

Well, you don’t. Right now, you’re surf casting on the beach. I mean, maybe you can gouge them with a hook. Some of those bluefish lures are pretty big. You whack them with it, but it just blows me away. Why people don’t want to train. Why do you think it’s a stereotype of, um, cops and donuts in the coffee shop.

Why do you think law enforcement has gotten that stereotype?

Which they donuts or why they don’t trade?

Both of them. Well, I think even the coffee and donuts, that’s a bigger one. Most people don’t know. As interesting as the level of training, most what they’re doing on a weekly basis, even if they’re doing fitness. I know a lot more cops that work out, which does make you harder to kill, but you’re strong, but it’s not giving you a skill set to fall back on and fighting.

So I definitely see more law enforcement doing fitness than fighting stuff.

And I think if looking at the process of the system, like, when I joined the police department, I was running about, my miles were around just over six minutes, 30 seconds right around there. So I was, I was pretty decent shape when I came on the department. And then, uh, you get to the academy and you sit there for 40 hours a week, take out food or whatever, whatever food happens to be brought with you that day is.

And I’m, uh, not sure how financials are today, but I was dirt poor when I came out of department, so I had cup of soup. That was my lunch during the academy, was a cup of soup. So if you ever look at the ingredients for a cup of soup, yeah, it’s terrible.

The ingredients are cut. And I gained, I gained and I lost probably two or three minutes on my. I think I was running like, almost nine minute miles by the time I got done with it. And the academy is like 26, 26 weeks long, so it doesn’t take long for you to fall into that.

So I moved out of trading and.

Moved out of you, kind of. What, what you’re saying here is it’s not cough cops and donuts and getting overweight. It’s all of America. It’s really. People like to say, oh, you always see the cops at the donut shop and the coffee shop and getting a little bit chunky, but pretty much that’s the standard american demographic, right?

They get thrown into the bus. Cause they’re supposed to be in shape. But how easy it is just a little bit to fall off and all of a sudden it’s good. It’s actually my wife, um, talking about a brand of energy drink and it was almost like four or five cups of coffee.

She’s like, no wonder why I feel great and it becomes not, oh, I was feeling a little tired that day. It comes five, six days a week now that you’re doing this energy drink. And actually the description on uh, the Internet was drinking moderation. It’s like, what’s moderation? Well, they’re probably saying one, but how many people are drinking two or three of those and how much caffeine they’re getting.

But it’s easy to fall in that trap from an energy drink to a little snack and a little snack at the break room and a little snack and all of a sudden you’ve got 20 pounds and it gets harder to take off.

What do they do in the corporate world? Like once a week they do their staff meeting. Where do they bring in for the staff meeting? Donuts, bagels, large amount of cream cheese. Um, ah, realistically, it doesn’t take much. I mean, I probably was falling out of shape with the uh, first three or four weeks of the academy starting.

Yeah, when you get done with the academy, you go out and continue training. But what do you do? Your restaurant life, you have and I tell the new people that come on to the job when they come on and I go eat with them and they order like the biggest plate on the menu.

It’s like, now you’re skinny, you’re 20 something. That’s awesome right now. But if you continue to eat like this, in another year or two it’s going to be 20 pounds heavier and it sneaks up on you and then you’re like, well, what the heck happened? I gained, when I came on the job to my heaviest weight, I was up, um, six, almost 70 pounds, 60, 70 pounds from the time I started the job and was running six minute miles, 630 miles to the time when I was like, oh, I got to get serious about losing weight, which was probably that’s eight, nine years into the job.

And that’s another thing. I mean, like that doesn’t happy hanging out, you know, the check clears every couple of weeks, don’t have much of a much too much to worry about kind of thing. Kind of life. And then I was like, if I keep going this way, this is pan sizes or three pants sizes higher than two.

Yeah.

I’m like, well this is awful. Um, so then I started, I picked up writing back, and in the late nineties, early two thousands again. And that’s where I was able to knock off the first good portion. 25, 30 pounds of weight was right there running. And then I still ran and I did some marathons until I got in a car accident and then kind of stopped doing that.

And then I came back and I’m like, well, my legs and stuff like that are what they used to be for all that running and stuff like that. Training for a marathon is actually really difficult.

Yeah, I would never, I would never do that.

The amount of running we were doing a week, um, just so much, the processes and everything else. And the truth be told, I lost another probably 1520 pounds running. But then it kind of became, uh, like, uh, my body didn’t. So I run. My legs are super strong. I squat a ton.

I don’t have a problem with that stuff. The rest of my upper body, though.

Yeah, I don’t. That’s why marathon runners just don’t look good to me. They just, I think, I mean, that’s where, uh, crossfit kind of got part of its start with Greg Glassman. It was the, the world’s fittest man on, uh, out whatever magazine. And he said he was stuck under less than his body weight on the bench press.

And he’s like, this is the strongest man or the fittest, uh, man on the planet. Well, in that domain. But how about all around? And you see, I mean, what I was kind of hearing from you is, you know, people get complacent, right? They get complacent and, uh, you know, were you always in the city?

Yeah.

You know, you see, some guys, they get complacent because not a lot of action’s happening. They might be in a nice small town, and then you don’t need that skill set until you need it. I remember one law, uh, enforcement guy that came, he had, he, uh, was working in the jail and he got choked with, uh, the cord of it with his mic.

And luckily other officers were able to come and respond and help. If not, he’s getting choked with his mic. And then it’s, now I need to do something. And I always hate that from no matter who it is that you’re going, oh, my gosh, the odds are now pass, maybe a little bit because you needed the self defense and you didn’t have it.

Now you’re seeking it out. Well, you’re definitely going to help with your confidence. And that’s like the kids, which always, you know, I think I’m getting even more grumpy, actually. I kinda said to, uh. Uh, yeah, um, um, I think it’s Josh. I mean, I. It’s like, not that I’m old, it’s just Josh, um, uh, again, says the same thing.

I get it all, Josh that I had. We had a mother and it was great. Like, tell the kid, like, he didn’t want to come. I’m like, it looks like the kids having fun and you don’t want to come anymore. Like, well, you signed up for a sports season, just like football, martial arts, the same thing.

Signed up for Krav Maga, but I’d be. I don’t want to come anymore. I don’t want to force him to do it, you know? And as a parent, you know, you hate to tell somebody to parent. He said he wanted to get his orange belt. He said he wanted to do this.

Why don’t you remind him of getting in there, but you need it. And the parents that do bring him in, they might not even see the benefit because of the kid had confidence to begin with versus they were bullied. You know, would have that if. Would alex be in that scenario if he had started, I forget what grade he started in, but we’ll just say started in preschool and had that confidence that we try to build here at RMSDF for the kids in Castle Rock and Douglas county.

Would we, would that parent even know that all of this training paid off because they never even got faced with a bully versus it’s too late with the kids, we see them able to turn it around. Unlike you’re getting choked out with your own mic or shirt or whatever’s happening, and you go, or, you know, the women that we see come in that had something happen.

It definitely does a ton for the psyche to get you back in after you’ve been attacked. I think it’s really good to build that confidence back, but, you know, people.

Get complacent, and there’s a lot of truth in what you say about waiting till something happens before you start something, because a few years ago I did. I got in a, uh, big bar fight with some guy and ended up getting, like, seven stitches over my eye and all kinds of stuff out of the fight.

And I was like, dang, you know, all I did was kind of ride him around until he gave up. Be quite honest.

Yeah.

And I’m like, yeah, uh, I kind of sucked seven stitches. Felt like trash fighting the guy. It was terrible. And then I was like, well, what can I do? And then I started a different martial art so I waited. It was, I waited till that point where I got seven stitches.

I had a big fight with somebody, and I’m like, uh, I better go do something, right. I better go run out, you know, because it’s already happened at that point in time. Happened. I should have been training before that.

Yeah.

I did that martial arts for probably about six months to a year. I don’t remember. And then I got busy again, so life schedule changed. Um, unfortunately for my work, it’s 20, uh, four, seven. So your schedule is not always friendly to the real world, life, uh, wise. And so then I moved back out of it again, and then I’m not, I wasn’t, didn’t do anything for a few years until actually, I think this, I started doing.

This was the next martial arts that I picked up.

Yeah.

From m, that point in time where I’m m like, okay, I’m enjoying this. Uh, but I didn’t, there’s some questionable stuff, but, but then I stopped again. Right. It was, it became inconvenient for me. I was back to work. I had more shifts. I had to make money for the, it was never convenient, you know?

And so at a certain point, it was like, well, I made that choice, and I wish I would have made the other choice and prioritize that martial art and that set of stuff.

So many people just prioritize fat and lazy and happy and versus. Yeah. And we won’t get, uh, the easy down that path. But people, they don’t, they just go for the easy and complacent. I don’t know. I’ve never, I’ve never been that way. I’ve always kind of worked out.

So it’s hard for me to sometimes relate of, like, I’m just gonna sit around even if when I go on vacation, like, okay. I mean, usually working out somewhat a few days out of that, that trip, but I feel like crap. I think people don’t realize how crappy they actually are because their body adapts and they feel happy and lazy and they don’t even realize what they’re putting into their body.

And, and like you said, it just totally adds up. Slowly adds up. You look at this stuff and you’re like, but I feel okay. But your body slowly adapted to that crappy way. You know, the human body’s amazing, but you’re really not in shape. You’re really not ready for anything you might need self defense wise or just fitness wise.

Right. I always tell the little kid, what if you have to drag your mom out of the house, it’s burning on fire. You know something? You can’t quit. You want to be strong, you want to be fit. What are you gonna get? It’s like that guy said. He can’t carry his ammo cans to his pickup truck because he’s so fat.

But he’s mister badass talking crap. And you have no fitness. You’re gonna be winded in a second. I’m gonna be able to hike anywhere. So, yeah, it’s. It’s amazing. I think in all of America, no matter what profession, it’s just easy. And I think law enforcement, it is a really hard one.

It’s like airline pilots, they have just such a terrible schedule. And, uh, it does make it hard, but I see tons of guys and girls that make it happen because it’s got to be a priority. So what do you, um, are. We’re upcoming on the fourth training for integrative defense strategies with Todd Fosse, our citizen defender program here at RMSDF.

What do you, you’ve touched on in a little bit, but what do you think of the, some of the really good benefits for the law enforcement officer? And then we’re now talking citizen, which they are.

Mhm.

Off duty. Tell us about what you think being an instructor and just as a, you know, Joe Smo guy, how do you feel that training has helped you with all of your other law enforcement? You’ve done a ton. You’ve how many years in law enforcement again?

32 years in law enforcement. Um, so we’ll just say it was at 31 ish when we, um, brought in the citizen defender program. So tell us about it.

I think my biggest takeaway from two biggest. Well, the biggest. Biggest takeaway is I think my shots improved a ton since I’ve. I started doing this.

Yeah. What’s the hit ratio? What’s the percentage for law enforcement?

Uh, not very good.

Not very good.

I always. I don’t know, you know, it. I always say it’s not a good gunfight unless the cops reload.

That’s not even what the hit ratio is.

It’s not very good. So. But. But the reality is, um, I think a big portion of a police officer’s life is either you’re on the street or you’re off the street. Well, if you’re off the street, like you said, you’re in Denver especially. Uh, I went across people that I’ve contacted before when I’m not working.

Yeah.

So your chances of actually finding somebody that may not like you is a lot greater than not and so they require us to carry when we’re not on duty. And when we carry when we’re not on duty, what do we do?

We conceal it.

Well, before I started doing the citizen defender program and working on my concealed carry, I thought that

everything would click, you know, if the bad occurrence happens, this is the mentality. If something bad happened, you know, I think about, I have to paraphrase that preface that whatever I do think about, like, well, what would happen if I was in the mall and something happened? What are my steps?

But this gets the actual, like, okay, I have. If I turn the corner and I’m in the food court and something bad is happening right in front of me, which is pretty commonplace. If you look across the country where some bad things happen and I have my gun, what do I do?

The guy’s right there with a gun right in front of me, or he’s pointing at somebody else or wherever, how fast can I get my gun out? Do I get my gun out then? Do I, uh, seek cover? Concealment? And I think that’s something that the citizen Defender program gives to the regular citizen.

If you’re a regular person that carries a concealed weapon and you’re involved in the incident, you know, drawing your gun out for the first time, because you’ve always gone for the range and had your gun out, you’re drawing your gun out for the first time in a critical incident, that you may save your family’s life.

If you haven’t practiced that, it’s gonna be very interesting, and you may or may not survive.

In actuality, that’s like a big thing that we see the program, that just getting it out of the holster and clearing your garment is a huge issue because people may have put a lot of rounds down range, but that’s from out of the holster, and now it’s a critical incident.

There’s stress. Well, that’s something we’re really trying to do. And it really, I think, wakes up a lot of people that they think, I’m just going to draw my gun. And the clothes, whatever attire you’re wearing, can really cause an issue with that. And you’re getting those reps under stress.

And, you know, people think it’s going to be easy, and they have this, you know, predetermined what’s happening.

And the Cert and the Cert reuse is an amazing tool for practice reality, because it gives you that feel. You don’t have to shoot a real gun, and you can actually feel like you’re drawing and engaging and doing something that normally with a real gun, you don’t have the ability to do.

Yeah.

I mean, it’s way similar. The trigger pulls somewhat similar. There’s a lot of sight pictures, stuff like that, that gives you the advantage of actually drawing and shooting something in a situation where you’re just not standing there on a range shooting that target in front of you.

Yeah.

So it gives you that practice where you don’t have to go to where you can’t any other time, really. You can’t in that practice anywhere.

Yeah. You can’t have somebody charging you. You can’t practice that. I mean, that’s. There’s the pros and cons to every training tool. You know, we see it with the cert training pistol that people will try to use a laser to aim, which is a big no no. That’s not what you’re doing.

You know, you got to use your sights, but you can see the hit. That’s the benefit. You know, what we do, unless we’re doing our a, um, ram pistols here, shooting rubber balls at each other or, you know, paintballs make a mess. So we usually use rubber balls when we do that training, which takes up time.

Right. You gotta reload. You got to do CO2. You got rubber balls all around the gym or whatever. If you’re training outside, the cert pistol gives you that feedback versus, you know, even in our weapon disarms here, if you’re going to take it away and the guy’s drawing a knife on you, you can see that you’re hitting center mass or you’re even as the instructor, you missed them, or you hit him in the arm and he’s on you.

You didn’t even get a center mass shot on that guy. So they’re a great tool. Like, uh, you know, you can do mag changes with them. You know, you can’t do slide relock because, you know, or any of that stuff, but your brain doesn’t know the difference on getting that out of the holster and putting rounds on somebody that’s coming after you.

I just had it yesterday. Somebody. I had that big crowbar that you had. You had. I was like, whoa, that thing is long. That it had nicked me in a thing we did this winter. And somebody let me get. I was, um, attacking, threatening them with that big tire iron crowbar, and they let me get close enough.

They went to their draw, but they weren’t able to integrate that, their hand to hand skills with the weapon, and I ended up hitting them, you know, simulating right on the side of their head, neck, going, you just took something that might cause a brain injury for the rest of your life.

And who cares about that guy? And whatever happens now, you’re. You’ve got a brain injury. Worst case scenario, or, you know, you’re knocked out and they’re doing. They take your gun and use it against, you know, you and your family. And so what if you hit them two times?

They’re still. They’re still going. They’re still going.

And I. And I think to add on that tv is probably one of our worst enemies as a concealed carry person, because you think that I draw my gun, and we’re in this situation where I got you, bang, bang, I got you, everything’s fine. But the reality is, if I draw my gun, I stick it out there, you grab it.

Well, what do I do? Oh, my God. He’s holding my gun. Now I have to struggle for my gun. Yeah, right at that point, we’re like, we think that we can just sit here and carry a gun around and everything is going to be super easy. Cause that’s what we’ve seen on tv.

It’s gonna take one or two shots. The guy’s gonna fall down the ground.

Yeah.

Give us the best impression. Give us the best impression of being dead. And the reality is you may get one shot off, and then they’re holding your gun after that, and you’re fighting over your gun.

Yeah. Uh, we see so many people going, I’m shooting you. I’m like, maybe once. But now you realize that the slides not, uh, going, you realize your weapon is malfunctioning. And so many people don’t. They’re going back in their head, you know, in a drill. They’re like. They’re saying bang.

Which I like. Bang, bang, bang. You’re thinking you’re pulling the trigger, but you need another skill set of weapon retention, whether it’s standing up on the ground and all things that we’re doing in that program. That’s why, you know, there’s so many great martial arts out there. But what we try to do, like, we’re doing self defense, and I think people lose.

Uh, I don’t know what a contact with it, but it’s not. They lose that they get. Sometimes they get caught up in a martial art that might be competition, too, competition based, and they’re great things, but they’re not street self defense. And kind of the things that we’re trying to do here of going integrate your firearm, that’s totally different.

And how much time that takes. And we all know we don’t have that much time. So that’s kind of how I prioritize what we’re doing for our self defense and fighting here of, uh, keep it simple, stupid a lot of times, and there’s a lot to train on. There’s a lot to train on, especially when you think, you know, retain your weapon, you know, or keep your pepper spray, whatever the heck it might be.

It all integrates into our citizen defender and our krav maga program. So it’s train more, suck less. You get that. That shirt. Great way to, uh, support the podcast. Either shop dot rmsdf.com or shop dot clearsky dot train. What is it? Shop dot. Shop dot. Clear sky dot training.

There’s a lot of dots in there. I messed that up today. The producer will edit it out.

Josh doesn’t know how to edit,

so that’s a great way. We, uh, continue to, uh, add stuff on to the clearsky dot training portal. So if you want to train from home, you want to review. If you’re a member here at RM SDF, that’s a great way to review and get that content, um, versus trying to go off your memory.

Um, you know, our memories are all fading. It’s tough. Self defense is tough. So it’s a great, great way to supplement your training with us, um, or anywhere else. If you’re doing crowd maga, we’ve got a ton of curriculum on there for you guys to use and disseminate where YouTube has a lot of crap, so.

All right, Nick, we’re running a bit long. I appreciate you coming on the show and talking about your experience here.

Thank you.

Have you back, because I know you got some great stories of, uh, being, ah, you know, guns going off in those tussles and, um, with suspects and all that stuff is, uh, you’ve got some good stories, so I’ll have to get you back on the show. All right, guys, thanks a lot for joining us today.

Train more, suck less.

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